Anybody using Spyder ? - Page 2

DennisHolland · April 8th, 2005

Yes,

Adobe gamma is somewhat basic when you just want to tune your colors a bit. But with the advanced finetuning option and some knowledge of calibration and a good eye you can achieve a very reasonable colormanagement-level. I remember we've spend an entire masterclass on colormanagement and how to calibrate your monitorsettings with Adobe gamma. It takes time to grasp the fine art of calibrating and most people have difficulties with the how-to's...

I've surfed the colorvision-site for it and I think that the spidertool is a great solution for a one-click > instant success. Maybe I'm gonna give it a shot, it must be a good co-op with the colorimetertool that comes with it. The colorimetertool is, in my opinion, more than just a measurement assistant and will greatly improve quality, and the price? Well, I'd say let's give it a go for the advanced version. It's only a couple of bucks more which is peanuts comparing to the improvements that can be achieved.

jackb602 · April 8th, 2005

I bought the package that included PrintFix, and I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Since my prints were already looking very good after calibrating my monitor, I forgot about it. But one of these days I need to put a call in to tech support.

Jack

Tim Nelson · April 12th, 2005

Ok, well my Spyder2 Pro Studio came in today. I went through the calibration process for my main 21" CRT and my side 15" lcd monitor. They look totally different! I thought they were supposed to end up looking the same after I calibrate them. To me, the CRT looks horrible & the lcd looks great. Maybe I'm not doing something right. This obviously isn't going to be as easy as I thought.

Jeff Mottle · April 12th, 2005

How did you calibrate them? What method did you use to calibrate. Having never used an LCD I can only presume they only allow a color temp setting and obviously not guns. I can't recall, when you calirate dual monitors does it ask you what type of monitor it is in both cased or just the first one?

Tim Nelson · April 12th, 2005

Yeah, there are seperate methods for lcd and crt screens. I recalibrated them and they look a little closer now, although the lcd is in general has more contrast/brightness & seems a little more blue. My crt's white is looking really bland & yellowish, but hopefully my eyes will get used to it. Part of it could be the fact that my monitor is at least a couple years old & even at its highest brightness & contrast is still rather dark.

Right now I'm going through your calibration pdf's to really get this into my head. I haven't tried printing anything yet because I don't want make sure I have gone through as many of the right steps as possible. One thing I don't get so far is in Photoshop, you mentioned to always do a soft proof using your printer & paper type. I don't have any of those options for my printer & am not sure how to add those. Hopefully this will start making sense soon! If so, it will all be worth it.

Tim Nelson · April 12th, 2005

Wow I think I'm actually getting there! I figured out how to load the proof settings for each Epson paper and am using 'same as source' in Photoshops print options. Then on Epsons print options, I have 'no color adjustment' checked.

I've only tested on premium glossy, but so far the prints are SUPER close to what I see on the lcd monitor. Its funny because before today my lcd has always been way off no matter how hard I tried to manually adjust it. The display on my crt has much less contrast, especially when I turn on the proof setup for my printer, but is still pretty accurate with color depiction. I'm starting to thing my crt is not capable of displaying the images levels properly at all, even after calibration. A shame too, since I just spent all this money on Spyder.

At any rate, I already see a large improvement in printing. Now I like this lcd so much that I might buy another one instead of a crt when I'm finally ready to upgrade.

Jeff Mottle · April 12th, 2005

Hey Tim,

LCDs are much better at contrast than CRTs which is probably why you see that. If you want to run it again, re-calibrate your monitor using the gun controls (if your monitor has those capabilities), rather than using the built-in color temps as this will give you a much better idea of your gun levels. Typically the red gun starts to go first on older monitors. If this is the case you will find that you have the red gun maxed out at 100 just trying to get the standard deviation between all the guns into the range it's looking for. I was going to ask if you calibrated to D50, but as you mentioned my docs I will assume you are. Everyone who's monitor I have calibrated to D50 at first complains of a really pink display, but in about a week they just rave about how close the colors are and don't really notice the pink anymore. Well except our graphic designer who tell me here mouse still looks pink. LOL.

Cesar · April 12th, 2005

Hi
I'm interested in buy an spider too, I had two monitors a samsung 19' crt and a apple 23" lcd, i also have a plotter, a hp 500 PS.
i liked this spider because has some special options to manage Pantone values, or i'm wrong? and this plotter in theory has the ability to work like an offset print, work with real pantone values.
I get good results with the plotter, but in a very hard way, never the print is similar to the screen. the plotter is postscrip so it cames with special software (RIP). i tried a lot with this software, spent a tons of paper and ink, and finally i surrender, i can't get quality results, always to green or to dark or to red, was a nightmare.
surprinsingly i get extraordinary results printing from the software where the job was done (corel, photoshop, etc.) and using an small option, The plotter prints 10 small copies of the image, and i choose the best option. maybe i get the excellents results but i still think its a very rudimentary way to check the color, and it's not a very logical way to work, because you didn't work with real values of color. Thats the reason that i want to tried the spider.
I don't have to much experience in this topic, so i ask. I use the color profile created by the spider to print inside the software? (corel, illustrator, etc.) or i have to print from aditional software.
Someone have any experience with the spider and a hp500ps? can i use the create color profile in a rip software?

Jeff Mottle · April 12th, 2005

Cesar, the Pantone Colorist software that ships with the pro version only allows you to view HTML and RGB value from Pantone colors, it does not create color profiles for your printer, nor does it read values from printer outputs to generate printer profiles. To get a proper printer profile you need a densitometer and colorimeter to meaure values from a printed target, much the same way the Spyder reads targets from the screen during the calibration.

Colorimeters are not cheap, especially if you go for top end models from companies like Gretag-Macbeth. ColorVision also has one too that will do what you want, two of them actually. check these links:

http://www.colorvision.com/profis/pr...iew.jsp?id=261
http://www.colorvision.com/profis/pr...iew.jsp?id=244

If you also do a search on the internet for printer profiles for your printer, there are a number of companies that sell them. Bare in mind however that like two idential monitors a generic printer profile will never be as good as one created for your exact printer, paper and ink combination.

Tim Nelson · April 12th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Mottle

I was going to ask if you calibrated to D50, but as you mentioned my docs I will assume you are.

Actually I don't think I did that. I just used what Spyder recommended which was gama 2.2 and temp 6500. Would you still recommend D50 and if so what target setting would that be on the Spyder setup? Is that supposed to be 1.8/5000?

I did use the actual rgb gun adjustments on the crt and i did have to max out red at first and that seemed really weird to me. THen I slid the color temp bar to about half way and that allowed me to even out the individual rgb sliders.

Anyways, I'm glad you posted those calibration guides. I don't think I would have been able to figure this out without them.

April 8th, 2005	#11 (permalink)
DennisHolland Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rotterdam Age: 41 Posts: 738 Name: Dennis de Priester	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? Yes, Adobe gamma is somewhat basic when you just want to tune your colors a bit. But with the advanced finetuning option and some knowledge of calibration and a good eye you can achieve a very reasonable colormanagement-level. I remember we've spend an entire masterclass on colormanagement and how to calibrate your monitorsettings with Adobe gamma. It takes time to grasp the fine art of calibrating and most people have difficulties with the how-to's... I've surfed the colorvision-site for it and I think that the spidertool is a great solution for a one-click > instant success. Maybe I'm gonna give it a shot, it must be a good co-op with the colorimetertool that comes with it. The colorimetertool is, in my opinion, more than just a measurement assistant and will greatly improve quality, and the price? Well, I'd say let's give it a go for the advanced version. It's only a couple of bucks more which is peanuts comparing to the improvements that can be achieved. __________________ __________________________________________ PRIESTERMEDIA 3D Visualisaties & Presentaties Rotterdam, the Netherlands Last edited by DennisHolland; April 8th, 2005 at 03:04 PM.

April 8th, 2005	#12 (permalink)
jackb602 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 445 Name: Jack Bransfield	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? I bought the package that included PrintFix, and I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Since my prints were already looking very good after calibrating my monitor, I forgot about it. But one of these days I need to put a call in to tech support. Jack __________________ Built Light

April 12th, 2005	#13 (permalink)
Tim Nelson Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Providence, RI Age: 30 Posts: 1,636 Name: Tim Nelson	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? Ok, well my Spyder2 Pro Studio came in today. I went through the calibration process for my main 21" CRT and my side 15" lcd monitor. They look totally different! I thought they were supposed to end up looking the same after I calibrate them. To me, the CRT looks horrible & the lcd looks great. Maybe I'm not doing something right. This obviously isn't going to be as easy as I thought. __________________ Tim Nelson timnelson3d.com

April 12th, 2005	#14 (permalink)
Jeff Mottle President/Founder Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Age: 33 Posts: 5,164 Name: Jeff Mottle	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? How did you calibrate them? What method did you use to calibrate. Having never used an LCD I can only presume they only allow a color temp setting and obviously not guns. I can't recall, when you calirate dual monitors does it ask you what type of monitor it is in both cased or just the first one? __________________ Jeff Mottle CGarchitect.com

April 12th, 2005	#15 (permalink)
Tim Nelson Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Providence, RI Age: 30 Posts: 1,636 Name: Tim Nelson	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? Yeah, there are seperate methods for lcd and crt screens. I recalibrated them and they look a little closer now, although the lcd is in general has more contrast/brightness & seems a little more blue. My crt's white is looking really bland & yellowish, but hopefully my eyes will get used to it. Part of it could be the fact that my monitor is at least a couple years old & even at its highest brightness & contrast is still rather dark. Right now I'm going through your calibration pdf's to really get this into my head. I haven't tried printing anything yet because I don't want make sure I have gone through as many of the right steps as possible. One thing I don't get so far is in Photoshop, you mentioned to always do a soft proof using your printer & paper type. I don't have any of those options for my printer & am not sure how to add those. Hopefully this will start making sense soon! If so, it will all be worth it. __________________ Tim Nelson timnelson3d.com

April 12th, 2005	#16 (permalink)
Tim Nelson Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Providence, RI Age: 30 Posts: 1,636 Name: Tim Nelson	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? Wow I think I'm actually getting there! I figured out how to load the proof settings for each Epson paper and am using 'same as source' in Photoshops print options. Then on Epsons print options, I have 'no color adjustment' checked. I've only tested on premium glossy, but so far the prints are SUPER close to what I see on the lcd monitor. Its funny because before today my lcd has always been way off no matter how hard I tried to manually adjust it. The display on my crt has much less contrast, especially when I turn on the proof setup for my printer, but is still pretty accurate with color depiction. I'm starting to thing my crt is not capable of displaying the images levels properly at all, even after calibration. A shame too, since I just spent all this money on Spyder. At any rate, I already see a large improvement in printing. Now I like this lcd so much that I might buy another one instead of a crt when I'm finally ready to upgrade. __________________ Tim Nelson timnelson3d.com

April 12th, 2005	#17 (permalink)
Jeff Mottle President/Founder Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Age: 33 Posts: 5,164 Name: Jeff Mottle	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? Hey Tim, LCDs are much better at contrast than CRTs which is probably why you see that. If you want to run it again, re-calibrate your monitor using the gun controls (if your monitor has those capabilities), rather than using the built-in color temps as this will give you a much better idea of your gun levels. Typically the red gun starts to go first on older monitors. If this is the case you will find that you have the red gun maxed out at 100 just trying to get the standard deviation between all the guns into the range it's looking for. I was going to ask if you calibrated to D50, but as you mentioned my docs I will assume you are. Everyone who's monitor I have calibrated to D50 at first complains of a really pink display, but in about a week they just rave about how close the colors are and don't really notice the pink anymore. Well except our graphic designer who tell me here mouse still looks pink. LOL. __________________ Jeff Mottle CGarchitect.com

April 12th, 2005	#18 (permalink)
Cesar Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Medellin Age: 29 Posts: 41 Name: Cesar Rodriguez	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? Hi I'm interested in buy an spider too, I had two monitors a samsung 19' crt and a apple 23" lcd, i also have a plotter, a hp 500 PS. i liked this spider because has some special options to manage Pantone values, or i'm wrong? and this plotter in theory has the ability to work like an offset print, work with real pantone values. I get good results with the plotter, but in a very hard way, never the print is similar to the screen. the plotter is postscrip so it cames with special software (RIP). i tried a lot with this software, spent a tons of paper and ink, and finally i surrender, i can't get quality results, always to green or to dark or to red, was a nightmare. surprinsingly i get extraordinary results printing from the software where the job was done (corel, photoshop, etc.) and using an small option, The plotter prints 10 small copies of the image, and i choose the best option. maybe i get the excellents results but i still think its a very rudimentary way to check the color, and it's not a very logical way to work, because you didn't work with real values of color. Thats the reason that i want to tried the spider. I don't have to much experience in this topic, so i ask. I use the color profile created by the spider to print inside the software? (corel, illustrator, etc.) or i have to print from aditional software. Someone have any experience with the spider and a hp500ps? can i use the create color profile in a rip software?

April 12th, 2005	#19 (permalink)
Jeff Mottle President/Founder Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Age: 33 Posts: 5,164 Name: Jeff Mottle	Re: Anybody using Spyder ? Cesar, the Pantone Colorist software that ships with the pro version only allows you to view HTML and RGB value from Pantone colors, it does not create color profiles for your printer, nor does it read values from printer outputs to generate printer profiles. To get a proper printer profile you need a densitometer and colorimeter to meaure values from a printed target, much the same way the Spyder reads targets from the screen during the calibration. Colorimeters are not cheap, especially if you go for top end models from companies like Gretag-Macbeth. ColorVision also has one too that will do what you want, two of them actually. check these links: http://www.colorvision.com/profis/pr...iew.jsp?id=261 http://www.colorvision.com/profis/pr...iew.jsp?id=244 If you also do a search on the internet for printer profiles for your printer, there are a number of companies that sell them. Bare in mind however that like two idential monitors a generic printer profile will never be as good as one created for your exact printer, paper and ink combination. __________________ Jeff Mottle CGarchitect.com

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