More workstation questions...

mbr · January 15th, 2003

I am considering buying a new machine for an upcoming project, but have to be as efficient with the cash as possible (surprise, right?).
So, what does anyone think about buying a Xeon based system with one chip? Then adding it later when the prices go down (like, say, 6 months)?
Will a Xeon 2.4 be as fast as a P4 2.4? Just trying to think of ways to maximize the long term value of the system.

One more question, does anyone know anything about the new Fire cards? Particularly the cheap ones. Or even the cheaper Quadro 4s that Boxx supplies?
Thanks.

plastic · January 15th, 2003

you should buy both CPU's at the same time. the chip architecture might change without notice (revision), which could (could!) lead to problems.

if you are on a budget, you might consider a fast geforce 4 card instead of the quadro. there hardly seem to be a difference between geforce and quadro cards, especially with softquadro available.

mbr · January 15th, 2003

Thanks. That makes sense.
I have been thinking about the graphic cards, too. I have a Quadro 4 700 in my workstation and an old GeForce 3 64mb card in my old machine and honestly don't notice much of a difference. The problem is that Dell (and I believe Boxx, too, but the Boxx workstations cost several hundred more than the Dell) doesn't offer GeForce cards in their workstations. They do offer fairly cheap Fire GL cards (64mb), but these are new and I know nothing of them (besides the reputation of the older Fire cards).
Anyone know about these cards?

Greg Hess · January 16th, 2003

The cheaper FireGL cards. (Everything 9000 and below) are pretty #%(*!@&y in max. They have a variety of bugs and issues.

I'd stick with nvidia based accelerators if your dealing with discreet products.

As for Dell vs Boxx. We recently had a large debate over the cost of the two systems, and the boxx systems actually came out cheaper. Make sure you call boxx instead of going by direct website quotes, as they'll work with you and sometimes negotiate over the price.

Also make sure to get the newer model xeons (E7505 chipset) with DC-DDR and 533 FSB support. These are socket 604 and are CHEAPER then the older model xeons because of the lower cost of DDR vs Rambus.

dwright · January 16th, 2003

Regarding Quadro vs. GF there is a mayor difference that many people did not realize. Both are equally fast, but the way the Q handles its Z buffer is much better than regular GF. I had done tests with both and so far this is the only main difference. But for everything else…. Same thing.

David

Christopher Nichols · January 16th, 2003

Since it is essentially the same chip NV25... does the softquadro "fix" enable the enhanced Zdepth of the Q card in the G card?

mbr · January 16th, 2003

Here's the specs I was looking at:

Boxxtech:
Dual XEON DP 2.66GHz, 512k cache, 533MHz FSB 1
1GB PC2100 ECC Reg DDR (2- 512MB DIMMS) 1
NVIDIA Quadro4 380 XGL 64MB 8X AGP 1
120GB 7200 rpm ATA133 hard drive 1
16x DVD 48x CDROM (black bezel) 1
Pioneer A05 DVD-R/-RW Burner w/Software (white Bezel) 1
Windows XP Professional Edition 1
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1
Black 104 key keyboard

Total Price: $3,604.00

Dell:

Dell Precision™ Workstation 450 Desktop:
Xeon™ Processor, 2.66GHz, 512K Cache 45D26
Xeon™ Processor, 2.66GHz, 512K Cache PR26
1GB,DDR266 SDRAM Memory,ECC (4 DIMMS)
Graphics Cards: ATI, FIRE GL™ E1,64MB
120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive with DataBurst
Windows® XP Professional
4X DVD+RW and 16XDVD with Software Decode
3Yr Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day)

$3,144

Same configuration for a Dell 650:
$3,684

None of the systems offered GeForce cards as options.
Greg - you mentioned that Boxxtech are flexible? Will they substitute other graphic cards? I am fairly certain Dell will not.
Thanks.

Greg Hess · January 16th, 2003

Mbr,

Call boxx. Tell them the dell price...tell them the website price. Explain you'd like a different graphic card. You'd be surprised how cool those guys are.

dwright · January 16th, 2003

regarding z-depth of softQ... will research, not sure.

David

January 15th, 2003	#2 (permalink)
plastic Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: vienna, EU Posts: 314 Name: Marc Lorenz	you should buy both CPU's at the same time. the chip architecture might change without notice (revision), which could (could!) lead to problems. if you are on a budget, you might consider a fast geforce 4 card instead of the quadro. there hardly seem to be a difference between geforce and quadro cards, especially with softquadro available. __________________ Marc Lorenz http://plugins.angstraum.at My 3d gallery at Flickr

January 16th, 2003	#5 (permalink)
dwright Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Francisco Age: 34 Posts: 200 Name: David Wright	Regarding Quadro vs. GF there is a mayor difference that many people did not realize. Both are equally fast, but the way the Q handles its Z buffer is much better than regular GF. I had done tests with both and so far this is the only main difference. But for everything else…. Same thing. David __________________ David Wright Principal - Artmaze, Inc

January 16th, 2003	#6 (permalink)
Christopher Nichols Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lalaland Posts: 1,166 Name: Christopher Nichols	Since it is essentially the same chip NV25... does the softquadro "fix" enable the enhanced Zdepth of the Q card in the G card? __________________ Christopher P Nichols

January 16th, 2003	#9 (permalink)
dwright Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: San Francisco Age: 34 Posts: 200 Name: David Wright	regarding z-depth of softQ... will research, not sure. David __________________ David Wright Principal - Artmaze, Inc

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January 15th, 2003	#1 (permalink)
mbr Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles and Connecticut....and Denver Posts: 1,266 Name: Markus Byron	I am considering buying a new machine for an upcoming project, but have to be as efficient with the cash as possible (surprise, right?). So, what does anyone think about buying a Xeon based system with one chip? Then adding it later when the prices go down (like, say, 6 months)? Will a Xeon 2.4 be as fast as a P4 2.4? Just trying to think of ways to maximize the long term value of the system. One more question, does anyone know anything about the new Fire cards? Particularly the cheap ones. Or even the cheaper Quadro 4s that Boxx supplies? Thanks.

January 15th, 2003	#3 (permalink)
mbr Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles and Connecticut....and Denver Posts: 1,266 Name: Markus Byron	Thanks. That makes sense. I have been thinking about the graphic cards, too. I have a Quadro 4 700 in my workstation and an old GeForce 3 64mb card in my old machine and honestly don't notice much of a difference. The problem is that Dell (and I believe Boxx, too, but the Boxx workstations cost several hundred more than the Dell) doesn't offer GeForce cards in their workstations. They do offer fairly cheap Fire GL cards (64mb), but these are new and I know nothing of them (besides the reputation of the older Fire cards). Anyone know about these cards?

January 16th, 2003	#4 (permalink)
Greg Hess Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: University of Maryland Age: 30 Posts: 1,012 Name: Greg Hess	The cheaper FireGL cards. (Everything 9000 and below) are pretty #%(*!@&y in max. They have a variety of bugs and issues. I'd stick with nvidia based accelerators if your dealing with discreet products. As for Dell vs Boxx. We recently had a large debate over the cost of the two systems, and the boxx systems actually came out cheaper. Make sure you call boxx instead of going by direct website quotes, as they'll work with you and sometimes negotiate over the price. Also make sure to get the newer model xeons (E7505 chipset) with DC-DDR and 533 FSB support. These are socket 604 and are CHEAPER then the older model xeons because of the lower cost of DDR vs Rambus.

January 16th, 2003	#7 (permalink)
mbr Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles and Connecticut....and Denver Posts: 1,266 Name: Markus Byron	Here's the specs I was looking at: Boxxtech: Dual XEON DP 2.66GHz, 512k cache, 533MHz FSB 1 1GB PC2100 ECC Reg DDR (2- 512MB DIMMS) 1 NVIDIA Quadro4 380 XGL 64MB 8X AGP 1 120GB 7200 rpm ATA133 hard drive 1 16x DVD 48x CDROM (black bezel) 1 Pioneer A05 DVD-R/-RW Burner w/Software (white Bezel) 1 Windows XP Professional Edition 1 Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical 1 Black 104 key keyboard Total Price: $3,604.00 Dell: Dell Precision™ Workstation 450 Desktop: Xeon™ Processor, 2.66GHz, 512K Cache 45D26 Xeon™ Processor, 2.66GHz, 512K Cache PR26 1GB,DDR266 SDRAM Memory,ECC (4 DIMMS) Graphics Cards: ATI, FIRE GL™ E1,64MB 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive with DataBurst Windows® XP Professional 4X DVD+RW and 16XDVD with Software Decode 3Yr Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day) $3,144 Same configuration for a Dell 650: $3,684 None of the systems offered GeForce cards as options. Greg - you mentioned that Boxxtech are flexible? Will they substitute other graphic cards? I am fairly certain Dell will not. Thanks.

January 16th, 2003	#8 (permalink)
Greg Hess Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: University of Maryland Age: 30 Posts: 1,012 Name: Greg Hess	Mbr, Call boxx. Tell them the dell price...tell them the website price. Explain you'd like a different graphic card. You'd be surprised how cool those guys are.

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