scanmead

I did say I'd show up whining sooner or later. I've done the homework, read and tested and read some more, anything and everything I could find. With 4 projects sitting in limbo and no results to show. Just can't get past the lighting.. or maybe it's the shaders.. or the modeling..

If anyone (or everyone) could take a look at this partially finished image, and point out what I'm doing wrong? It really seems like it wants to be a good render, but something isn't working.

It's a Standard GI (very low settings as yet) powered by one Infinite light 150% and Hard Shadows, with one faint Omni (no shadows) for fill. I've checked all the Illumination and Mapping of the shaders, and have a Sharpen Post Effect at 15%

http://www.scanmead.com/temp/mountains.jpg

Tried to work through this, but there's something I'm not understanding, because I know from the work I see here, that Cinema can do better.

Ernest Burden

Kill the sharpen effect.

Otherwise--what is the problem with the inage? Its hard to tell you how to improve it without knowing what you are trying for, and what isn't working the way you expect.

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Ernest Burden III
AcmeDigital
architectural rendering

wda

I'd say the next step is to up the GI settings. Working on getting the 'flatness' at the vertical corners of the wood at the exterior wall, interior corners and more GI influence at the chairs. Then make a decision about the need for an environment object/shader or propably better using area lights for the sky influence based on the results of upping the GI.

...just my humble opinion from what I see in that image... Your response to Ernest's reply would be far more valuable.

WDA

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From the calm seas.... Into the CG Fire...... Into the Heart of Texas

scanmead

Wasn't too sure about that Sharpen, but gave it a try.

Basically, trying for as close to real as possible. There are just so many ways to light a scene: bounces, GI, no GI, Stochastic, AO, area lights...and any combination of all of them.

Think this light set up is working? Colors too saturated maybe?

scanmead

Did a small test, raising the GI to 95% accuracy, and that may resolve some of the 'missing shadows' from the thin chair legs.

I do have an Environment Object, but it's at 1% and was set to white. Changed that to a pale blue.

When you suggest using area lights, do you mean replacing the Infinite with area lights at the windows?

This test render is going to take a while to finish... 5 minutes into the Prepass and the screen is still black.

opay

hmmm, 1st, what c4d version did u use? if prepass is still black maybe show illumination tab didn't check...

2nd. try to render it, without omni fill and environment. and look what happen.

3rd. 5 minutes prepass, for 95% accuracy, is quick, maybe very very quick. what GI setting did u use? try this. strengh 100, accuracy 70, dd 1 (or 2) ss 400 min 50 max 250, and look what happen

4th. don't forget, to "close" this interior. make sure every wall is connected

i hope this will help you

Frosty

Apart from the lighting, which is one half the required discussion, I think you should be looking into your materials as well.
1) The scale of your woods loks way off.
2) The horizontal and vertical wood surfaces read together without a visible break.
3) The wood should, I think, have some sheen, bump and reflection.
4) The leather on the sofa (chesterfield for strat) needs some sheen and bump.

Overall, everyone's comments are geared to you creating an image with more contrast and depth. Currently its quite flat and lifeless.

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Steve Shaw, M.Arch
www.crucialperception.com

scanmead

I really appreciate the responses. I can always see the image isn't working, but not *why* it isn't. Brightly lit images are my nemesis.

The shaders and mats do need work. I'd just stopped working on them when the lighting became an obsession. Since I used panels to build up the large vertical area, the scale of the wood is easily changed.

The room is complete, and leak-proof. Running 9.6 with a decent PC. The black screen was just Cinema sitting at 0% forever. This went from a 10-minute render at 70% accuracy, to a 4-hour render at 95%. Those joins between panels were very slightly more visible.

So, I'm going to reduce the GI from 100% strength, and try changing the Infinite to a Spot so more controls are available. Try setting some Falloff, and maybe try Area shadows. Crisping them up might be easier than softening the Hard shadows. May give adjusting the Diffuse Depth a go as well.

Thanks so much for taking the time to look at this. Now if I can just get it right.

wda

Lee,

Truth is you really don't have a bad start at all. Yes 'even' lighting is evil, LOL. First off lighting is never balanced. When it does look even there are subtle differences, intensity, shadow, color of the light/s. It's all about composing your scene...something has to be the 'subject'. Objects, space, the interplay of light in the space and or materials are fairly typical subjects for ArchViz, correct?

You have a good handle on the materials...so focus just on the lighting. Generally it can be advantages to just start with with lighting, get it 'right' then add materials, can save some headaches. So here are some examples...C4D render, settings & area lights for GI-sky influence see attached file and a Modo render. Used Modo to kind to verify and it's fun to play with .

Much more interesting even without materials...Good composition, well maybe not. Once you hit a point where there are dark darks (shadows) and lighter areas not in direct light you can use an omni set to ambient only to nudge the overall 'brightness' (luminance' levels) of the scene until it trips your trigger.
Or use lighting form fixtures in the room to brighten things up.
Or in comp-PSD take an image with just the lighting like these or use some of the multi-pass options to get just the light info and multiply the lighting over what you posted initally. Simply anything white in the lighting layer would not have any effect and anything approaching dark will darken the base image. Overlay works too if you need to both darken and brighten the image. In the light layer white screens 50% grey does nothing and black multiplies.

Anyway hope you can see what your image is missing, even if it's very subtle the shadowy corners and brighter areas from bounced light is what really gives that realistic depth in so many cases. Light itself has a greater impact than color, texture....light is what defines everything.

Lecture over ;0, LOL , hope it's of some help.
WDA

Attached Images

	int_modo.jpg (89.1 KB, 27 views)
	int_c4d.jpg (48.3 KB, 22 views)

Attached Files

Living_int.zip (16.8 KB, 9 views)

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From the calm seas.... Into the CG Fire...... Into the Heart of Texas

ZFact

What are shadow maps....?