Brazil Test...

Mike Hagelsieb · April 17th, 2003

The Company I work for finally put in for Brazil r/s. I was playing around with it and so far love it. This was a quick test I did...not really sure why I'm posting it. I'm just excited to learn new software. :winkgrin:

Perhaps there might be a Brazil section in the forums coming soon?

Any pointers from any veteran Brazil users out there??

kunstraum.tv · April 17th, 2003

very grainy. to avoid it you have to use very high settings in brazil. that´s a big disadvantage of brazil especially when you are doing arch. renderings. that´s the reason why i have switched to vray and i´m very happy with it. clean, great look and very fast. i like brazil, but for my "everyday work" it´s the wrong tool !

Mike Hagelsieb · April 17th, 2003

Actually all the grain was done in post production. I added the grain in photoshop. This whole concept was just a really quick test to see how the software works. So far I'm very pleased with it. I'm sure once I get into it I'll find something that I don't like or can get better results from another software package. The thing is I find it exciting to learn new software.
I appreciate your comments Mark

. I truly love your work! Have you been using Vray for quite some time now? What software did you use to creat most of the images on your site? Well keep up the great work!
-Mike

kunstraum.tv · April 18th, 2003

most of the pictures were done with vray. hmm....i think i have to update my site, so many new pictures here on my computer.

the early work was done with viz4 and radiosity. f.e. kapelle (church). but for me radiosity in this form is a dead technology. when i loaded this scene 1.2 gb ram gone just because of the "lightmeh". for small rooms it´s okay, but for larger scenes it´s terrible. and the quality ! viz4/max5 is faster than lightscape, but lightscape looks and works much better. even today. so i switched to another renderer. but which one ? fR ? go away !!! i worked with 0.15 and it was horrible. cebas has a aggressive pr but little behind it. and still in the images of fR stage1 you can see on their website: gi-errors in every corner, on every wall. brazil i have mentioned above. so i tested vray and was glowing. very clean and very fast with a brilliant ui. and above all a wonderfull forum. very kind and helpful and even vlado, one of the programmer, helps you with every question. can you imagine edwin braun from cebas will ever do this ?

) so, i don´t regret the investment in vray.

excuse my english

Rick Eloy · April 18th, 2003

May I put my 2 cents here?

I've been using VRay for quite a while now, since 2001 or so, and decided to take a closer look at Brazil (ok, I admit, the name itself was very attractive

). Well, the fact is that, so far, it looks very slow and complicated. I've been comparing the 2 renderers and found out that I can get similar results with both, but with one MAJOR difference: time. To achieve the same results, it took over 3 times longer to render with Brazil (did I make myself clear?). Splotchiness is a normal result with Brazil, and takes a long time to get rid of them. With VRay, I get a great image in just a few minutes (really few, like 1 or 2). It's the greatest renderer I've seen so far.
[]
Rick

Connie Jacobs · May 20th, 2003

Since I don't see some of you in our client database, perhaps you are using the Brazil 0.4.53 public test version to form these opinions. This would be unwise since the pub test is not the Brazil 1.0 full-featured version and does not contain but a fraction of the features. Spreading this kind of misinformation about the commercial product based on the public test helps no one.

---- temporary aside.... ---------------

A lot of people in this forum post opinions based on crack software. Please know that the hackers introduced bugs and performance problems that a legit version of Brazil does not have. That's the nature of crack software and it hurts everyone, especially hard-working, software craftsmen who spend years researching, designing, coding, debugging, modifying, adding, and refining their work--much the same sort of process as an artist, only to have it stolen and distributed instantly to every corner of the globe and criticized for bugs a non-hacked version doesn't have.

------ aside done... --------------------------

We have arch viz guys write us daily thanking us for the artist-friendly interface that frees one from the clunky constraints of other software packages. You can simply work (adjusting lights, cameras, etc) naturally, without the software UI getting in the way and they behave how you expect. You can undersample for extremely fast test renders to get where you need it and then have confidence when you render the final it will be predictable and look as you expect. It's so predictable that you can make 11th hour changes with picky clients and not have to relight or reset your whole scene.

And, yes, Brazil has tons of controls (much more controllability than other renderers) and SplutterFish offers several tutorials, docs, 1.0 web forum, live online staff support etc, to learn how to use them. Brazil is not a designed to be a one-click solution that produces generic results. You can control almost every aspect of your render if you want. But just because Brazil offers you the control that no other renderer does (and I say that confidence), you can get great results on day one with it's logical default settings. Brazil grows with the artist as far as s/he wants to learn its capabilities and push it to the highest levels of realism or desired style. And I don't think I've ever seen more beautful images than Brazil images.

Performance/Quality ratio. Brazil can be very fast if you just need everyday results. If you try to learn how to use it for this with a buggy crack then yes, you'll blindly crank up the settings too high or not know how to use the high performance Brazil materials, accelerators, etc, and then blame the software when in fact you don't know what you're doing.

Vray is a great renderer for your fast-turnover, bread and butter stills, and I think an architecture firm would do well to have both vray and brazil in their arsenel.

But they are NOT the same. When you need to produce complex animations, or the flexibility to achieve a particular style (watercolor for instance) or to push the quality level to photoreal where the clients need to see exactly what something is going to look like (as much as possible in CG anyway) then in my opinion, there's no choice but Brazil. It is simply a more sophisticated tool. With Brazil you don't need to hit that "it just won't get that final look I want no matter how much I tweak" wall.

By the way, to the original poster (and to other registered 1.0 brazilians), if you want to talk to other arch viz guys using Brazil 1.0, the 1.0 forum is a great place to start. If your Brazil is registered to your company, then let us know and we can set you up a separate login. As far as setting one up here, we'll leave that up to Jeff.

Sorry this sounds like an ad for Brazil. But when I see misinformation being spread by dubious Brazil users, then someone needs to set the record straight.

Connie Jacobs
SplutterFish, LLC

[ May 20, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Connie Jacobs ]

STRAT · May 20th, 2003

hey Tony, calm down there.

i'm a fully paid up user of several bits of software, and i too dont go round 'theiving' software, but i certainly dont take offence at connies opening statement. it was just a general sweeping statement which does hold truth. not aimed at us individuals, but as a whole.

i bet allot of ppl in these forums do use illegal software, you telling me all the forum members are employed or in-work free lancers? i bet a fair proportion of members are just interested hobbyests. and why not?

we are side by side with warez users in this place like it or not, it's a subject that isn't tolerated here and ppl do get banned and/or reported to the authorites. but most dont. and it's impossible to police everybodies movements, but we do try our best

[ May 21, 2003, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ]

Tony · May 20th, 2003

Ok Strat, exactly which of the two members who responded to this thread with a negative view of brazil do you think are thieves? She said she was responding to one of them in this specific thread.

I understand the policy of not allowing discussion on pirated software and I agree with and support that policy.

But why is it allright, and even defended by this forums administrators, to accuse someone of illegal use because they prefer a different program.

I guess I should just allow this type of accusation to be made against members that I respect and believe to be honest people without complaining. But, I don't live in a police state and I don't believe everyone is guilty until proven innocent.

Obviously, I'm in the minority on this opinion, and that is a sad state of affairs for this forum.

Was that calm enough for you.

STRAT · May 20th, 2003

i cant see any evidence of wrong play here.

how do you come to the conclusion ppl are using illegal software? who says they're not using the public beta release versions?

[edit]

Connie isn't accusing anybody. she's just defending her company's product and pointing out that the beta versions and cracked versions of the product in no way indicate the full product's true capabilities

[edit]

[ May 21, 2003, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ]

sgee · May 20th, 2003

Yea I agree with Strat

Tony Calm down ....
I know there are lot of people who are using versions of all types of illegal software, in these forums. And I agree that cracked software loses a lot of the stability and functionality of the legal version.

Connie was not saying that the above people were using illegal version, but that their names were not on the Database…. That’s all.

There could be many reasons for this. One is that the copy they are using is illegal?

So who knows who is legal or illegal, as long as you know that you are legal. You cannot control 100% who is legal or illegal.

April 17th, 2003	#1 (permalink)
Mike Hagelsieb Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California Posts: 39 Name: Mike Hagelsieb	The Company I work for finally put in for Brazil r/s. I was playing around with it and so far love it. This was a quick test I did...not really sure why I'm posting it. I'm just excited to learn new software. :winkgrin: Perhaps there might be a Brazil section in the forums coming soon? Any pointers from any veteran Brazil users out there?? __________________ Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - Lennon

April 17th, 2003	#2 (permalink)
kunstraum.tv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Berlin, Germany Age: 35 Posts: 181 Name: Marc Gruber-Laux	very grainy. to avoid it you have to use very high settings in brazil. that´s a big disadvantage of brazil especially when you are doing arch. renderings. that´s the reason why i have switched to vray and i´m very happy with it. clean, great look and very fast. i like brazil, but for my "everyday work" it´s the wrong tool ! __________________ www.purerender.com architecture. vision. emotion

April 17th, 2003	#3 (permalink)
Mike Hagelsieb Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California Posts: 39 Name: Mike Hagelsieb	Actually all the grain was done in post production. I added the grain in photoshop. This whole concept was just a really quick test to see how the software works. So far I'm very pleased with it. I'm sure once I get into it I'll find something that I don't like or can get better results from another software package. The thing is I find it exciting to learn new software. I appreciate your comments Mark . I truly love your work! Have you been using Vray for quite some time now? What software did you use to creat most of the images on your site? Well keep up the great work! -Mike __________________ Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans - Lennon

April 18th, 2003	#4 (permalink)
kunstraum.tv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Berlin, Germany Age: 35 Posts: 181 Name: Marc Gruber-Laux	most of the pictures were done with vray. hmm....i think i have to update my site, so many new pictures here on my computer. the early work was done with viz4 and radiosity. f.e. kapelle (church). but for me radiosity in this form is a dead technology. when i loaded this scene 1.2 gb ram gone just because of the "lightmeh". for small rooms it´s okay, but for larger scenes it´s terrible. and the quality ! viz4/max5 is faster than lightscape, but lightscape looks and works much better. even today. so i switched to another renderer. but which one ? fR ? go away !!! i worked with 0.15 and it was horrible. cebas has a aggressive pr but little behind it. and still in the images of fR stage1 you can see on their website: gi-errors in every corner, on every wall. brazil i have mentioned above. so i tested vray and was glowing. very clean and very fast with a brilliant ui. and above all a wonderfull forum. very kind and helpful and even vlado, one of the programmer, helps you with every question. can you imagine edwin braun from cebas will ever do this ? ) so, i don´t regret the investment in vray. excuse my english __________________ www.purerender.com architecture. vision. emotion

April 18th, 2003	#5 (permalink)
Rick Eloy Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: São Paulo, Brasil Age: 31 Posts: 2,388 Name: Ricardo Eloy	May I put my 2 cents here? I've been using VRay for quite a while now, since 2001 or so, and decided to take a closer look at Brazil (ok, I admit, the name itself was very attractive ). Well, the fact is that, so far, it looks very slow and complicated. I've been comparing the 2 renderers and found out that I can get similar results with both, but with one MAJOR difference: time. To achieve the same results, it took over 3 times longer to render with Brazil (did I make myself clear?). Splotchiness is a normal result with Brazil, and takes a long time to get rid of them. With VRay, I get a great image in just a few minutes (really few, like 1 or 2). It's the greatest renderer I've seen so far. [] Rick __________________ Rick Eloy reb digital - Really, I'm doing it for the kids...

May 20th, 2003	#6 (permalink)
Connie Jacobs Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3 Name: Connie Jacobs	Since I don't see some of you in our client database, perhaps you are using the Brazil 0.4.53 public test version to form these opinions. This would be unwise since the pub test is not the Brazil 1.0 full-featured version and does not contain but a fraction of the features. Spreading this kind of misinformation about the commercial product based on the public test helps no one. ---- temporary aside.... --------------- A lot of people in this forum post opinions based on crack software. Please know that the hackers introduced bugs and performance problems that a legit version of Brazil does not have. That's the nature of crack software and it hurts everyone, especially hard-working, software craftsmen who spend years researching, designing, coding, debugging, modifying, adding, and refining their work--much the same sort of process as an artist, only to have it stolen and distributed instantly to every corner of the globe and criticized for bugs a non-hacked version doesn't have. ------ aside done... -------------------------- We have arch viz guys write us daily thanking us for the artist-friendly interface that frees one from the clunky constraints of other software packages. You can simply work (adjusting lights, cameras, etc) naturally, without the software UI getting in the way and they behave how you expect. You can undersample for extremely fast test renders to get where you need it and then have confidence when you render the final it will be predictable and look as you expect. It's so predictable that you can make 11th hour changes with picky clients and not have to relight or reset your whole scene. And, yes, Brazil has tons of controls (much more controllability than other renderers) and SplutterFish offers several tutorials, docs, 1.0 web forum, live online staff support etc, to learn how to use them. Brazil is not a designed to be a one-click solution that produces generic results. You can control almost every aspect of your render if you want. But just because Brazil offers you the control that no other renderer does (and I say that confidence), you can get great results on day one with it's logical default settings. Brazil grows with the artist as far as s/he wants to learn its capabilities and push it to the highest levels of realism or desired style. And I don't think I've ever seen more beautful images than Brazil images. Performance/Quality ratio. Brazil can be very fast if you just need everyday results. If you try to learn how to use it for this with a buggy crack then yes, you'll blindly crank up the settings too high or not know how to use the high performance Brazil materials, accelerators, etc, and then blame the software when in fact you don't know what you're doing. Vray is a great renderer for your fast-turnover, bread and butter stills, and I think an architecture firm would do well to have both vray and brazil in their arsenel. But they are NOT the same. When you need to produce complex animations, or the flexibility to achieve a particular style (watercolor for instance) or to push the quality level to photoreal where the clients need to see exactly what something is going to look like (as much as possible in CG anyway) then in my opinion, there's no choice but Brazil. It is simply a more sophisticated tool. With Brazil you don't need to hit that "it just won't get that final look I want no matter how much I tweak" wall. By the way, to the original poster (and to other registered 1.0 brazilians), if you want to talk to other arch viz guys using Brazil 1.0, the 1.0 forum is a great place to start. If your Brazil is registered to your company, then let us know and we can set you up a separate login. As far as setting one up here, we'll leave that up to Jeff. Sorry this sounds like an ad for Brazil. But when I see misinformation being spread by dubious Brazil users, then someone needs to set the record straight. Connie Jacobs SplutterFish, LLC [ May 20, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Connie Jacobs ]

May 20th, 2003	#7 (permalink)
STRAT Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK. Age: 36 Posts: 6,553 Name: Stephen Leworthy	hey Tony, calm down there. i'm a fully paid up user of several bits of software, and i too dont go round 'theiving' software, but i certainly dont take offence at connies opening statement. it was just a general sweeping statement which does hold truth. not aimed at us individuals, but as a whole. i bet allot of ppl in these forums do use illegal software, you telling me all the forum members are employed or in-work free lancers? i bet a fair proportion of members are just interested hobbyests. and why not? we are side by side with warez users in this place like it or not, it's a subject that isn't tolerated here and ppl do get banned and/or reported to the authorites. but most dont. and it's impossible to police everybodies movements, but we do try our best [ May 21, 2003, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ] __________________

May 20th, 2003	#8 (permalink)
Tony Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 299 Name: Tony Richardson	Ok Strat, exactly which of the two members who responded to this thread with a negative view of brazil do you think are thieves? She said she was responding to one of them in this specific thread. I understand the policy of not allowing discussion on pirated software and I agree with and support that policy. But why is it allright, and even defended by this forums administrators, to accuse someone of illegal use because they prefer a different program. I guess I should just allow this type of accusation to be made against members that I respect and believe to be honest people without complaining. But, I don't live in a police state and I don't believe everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Obviously, I'm in the minority on this opinion, and that is a sad state of affairs for this forum. Was that calm enough for you.

May 20th, 2003	#9 (permalink)
STRAT Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cardiff, Wales, UK. Age: 36 Posts: 6,553 Name: Stephen Leworthy	i cant see any evidence of wrong play here. how do you come to the conclusion ppl are using illegal software? who says they're not using the public beta release versions? [edit] Connie isn't accusing anybody. she's just defending her company's product and pointing out that the beta versions and cracked versions of the product in no way indicate the full product's true capabilities [edit] [ May 21, 2003, 04:36 AM: Message edited by: STRAT ] __________________

May 20th, 2003	#10 (permalink)
sgee Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: UK Posts: 22 Name: Shane Gee	Yea I agree with Strat Tony Calm down .... I know there are lot of people who are using versions of all types of illegal software, in these forums. And I agree that cracked software loses a lot of the stability and functionality of the legal version. Connie was not saying that the above people were using illegal version, but that their names were not on the Database…. That’s all. There could be many reasons for this. One is that the copy they are using is illegal? So who knows who is legal or illegal, as long as you know that you are legal. You cannot control 100% who is legal or illegal.

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