Dibbers

You could try reminding the client that you own the copyright of the image, and until it's paid in full, they do not have permission to use it. Doing so will be in breach of this copyright....

They may think 'Shit, we've already used it! We'd better pay him'

Worth a try.

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4DM

Don't know about Ireland - but in UK you can go to small claims court online to claim up to £5000. Apparently it's fairly cheap (£35-ish) and easy.

Aternatively, you could try a debt collection agency, and although you have to pay a percentage to them, you can also claim interest.

I go through phases - if I have had a bad experience, I am very strict with the next new client or two about terms. If things are turning over well enough, I get more relaxed about it - till the next time..

Sheer persistence usually pays off in the end, together with the expressed "regret" that you will have no choice but to instruct your solicitors...

Cheers,

D.

Noise

It is very important to arrive at a strategy that makes the process as simple as possible. In general, giving 30 days to pay or trying to rely on contracts or debt collectors is just asking for problems in my opinion. Pay on delivery is the best way as far as I can see - that way the work is paid for and there is no chance for the client to change their mind - for whatever reason.

Another thing we have encountered is that we will be appointed by an architect (for example) then when it comes time to send out the invoice, it goes to a 3rd party that we have not had any dealings with. They wait the 30 days then when we following it up - they start dragging their heels and redirecting us to different departments. All this can take months to resolve and it leaves our cash flow weakened and it also takes its toll on the stress and the time put into sorting it. The client cannot redirect, drag their heels or argue with a watermark especially if they have a deadline.

We have decided to implement the pay on delivery watermark method and see how it goes.

Thankyou all very much for your help.

N

ChooChoo

You have to decide for yourself if it is worth it to pursue. In business, there are always gonna be bad people. You eventually run into one (or in my case many).

Cheap to expensive

Write a letter of intent for a claim.
Small claims court
Debt Collector
Call Tony Soprano
Arbitration
Sue


If it's between 5k-10k in dollars, it is not worth pursuing if they are stubborn. Under 5k small claims court. Over...lawyer.

Sometimes you just have to call it a learning experience. If the client is insistent it wont pay, you've got a long way to go to get money. Even if you win in small claims court, if they don't pay after the verdict, then you still will have to hire a lawyer to get the money out of them. And if you win that, they can still stall payment. Depends on how evil they are. They can prolong it a loooong way.

Then what if they file bankruptcy along the way? You will have wasted your effort and money in collecting.

I have said f!%#? it myself a few times. Lesson learned.

Get a contract made up and constantly tweak it. Don't be anal about it. People sign contracts all the time. It protects both parties. If someone refuses to sign it, most of the time it's because they are dishonest and you don't want that business in the first place. It might be rough going initially, but the repeat or referral business from honest businesses will only help you in the long run..

Actually, if they use the pics or files, then you have a very good case against them if they have not paid. Keep sending invoices saying they are delinquent. I know if you sent in pdf's, at least you can give a time for file destruction. Don't know if there's something similar for jpeg's

Noise

I fully agree that some clients never intend to pay and it might be better to drop it and put it down to experience so, what I have learned is to get payment either upfront or on delivery.

You mentioned that even after the court favours you in a small claims court - the client may still persist in not paying. My conclusion here is that contracts are weak and the law even weaker.

The effort and time wasted in chasing up clients for money is the key element to avoid.

Maxer

I've got to say that I haven't had any problems with client's paying; I make sure that I get a signed contract before any work is done and 10% up front. I've never had anyone who was unwilling to sign the contract and the longest I've had to wait for payment is about 30 days.

If this is happening to you and these people keep coming back wanting you to do more work I wouldn’t do a thing until they paid in full for all the previous work and then I'd insist on at least 50% up front. Who cares if they are insulted, if they don't like it they can go somewhere else and sucker that poor SOB. This kind of stuff really infuriates me, why is it that Architects and developers think that it’s ok if they take 6 months to pay someone for work that basically sells their projects.

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Noise

I think you are right Devin.

I have had the quandry of installing the watermark but now I am fully sold on it however, the deposit is a different matter. Should we or not ?

Most people recommend atleast a 50% deposit especially for new clients but I am not sure about that, it could be too heavy handed and may not sit well with prospective clients. A 25% or 10% deposit sits better with me also including the watermark.

Now, I am talking about small projects, no more than 4 grand. Anything above this is a mandatory framework like 30%,40%,full.

I personally hate watermarks but, with regard to getting paid and avoiding lawyers (vultures) - they are a god send.

The other thing I would say is - I have no confidence in the LAW (in this country - Scotland) to resolve matters that pertaint to me getting paid for retrospective works. The fundamental is to get paid on delivery.

In responce to your infuriation - architectural projects take years - ours are weeks. Sometimes the release of money is based on these architectural timescales - why should we have to suffer that ? We correctly, should not. A watermark approaches the best way of us quickening immediacy for payment. Nothing more - nothing less.

Noise

Brian - it seems that expeirence is the key factor here and I am glad that I have asked this question - deposit and a watermark are the way forward.

Brian Smith

asking for a 50% deposit up front is completely professional and a norm in many businesses. it speaks to the commit of both sides. i just had the tiles in my house cut and polished and had to pay 50% up front to complete strangers.

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Brian Smith
www.3dats.com
3D Architectural Training Solutions

ChooChoo

I'm not an architect, and maybe I'm wrong, but isn't there a limit on the retainer an architect charges, like 25% max? I would charge 10-25% retainer and get draws for completion percentage along the way if possible.

I honestly feel that contracts protect all parties. I wouldn't pull one out unless it's $50K US though.

The law usually will side with the defendant until proven otherwise. That's why it takes so long. It's BS.

Don't suppose this is a residence or piece of property somehow. You might be albe to place a lien for work on the property. Might be a long shot, but a homeowner or business that gets handed a lien will be pretty pissed at the guy who hasn't paid you. Banks don't like to see them either. I have success doing that once.

absoltely agree.