Autodesk 3ds Max Design 2009 Reviewed - Page 2

Justin Hunt · August 28th, 2008

Brian you got it right, as with everything it has to be set up properly to get true readings.

A similar discussion came up years ago with regards to solar studies. Basically the question asked was, "can I stand up in court and truthfully say that the solar study is accurate?". Basically the solar study was setup in two different packages with the same data. Each gave different results and each software developer said theirs was correct. When compared to varoiuse industry accredited solar study data sets, neither were correct.

jhv

Brian Bradley · August 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Hunt

Basically the solar study was setup in two different packages with the same data. Each gave different results and each software developer said theirs was correct.
jhv

Don't they always.

I am glad that I don't make my living doing any kind of serious
analysis work like this as I can imagine that validating the accuracy
of data can get to be a serious pain.
For general light studies though I am glad that AD are incorporating
these kind of tools into Max.

Regards
Bri

pfbreton · August 29th, 2008

The difference between the IES Sun and mrSun is expected as both uses different internal mthods of estimating the intensity of the Sun.

The problem of daylight analysis is that there is no way to model a single sky condition.. so certain methods try to average it, other try to use the best case scenario (like a clear sky with pure atmosphere..).

The good news is that with Lighting Analysis woorkflows, the important question is "ball park figures". We could not care less about a difference of 15% 20% betwen 2 measurements. Lighting has a lot more tolerences than what you think.

Stay tuned, I'll post the link to the white paper once its public. You will find a lot of answers in it.

P.S. Jeff, please fix the workflow of cutting links: I lost all my previous reply because of this :\: I got a warning, I pressed ok and all my text was lost...

Brian Bradley · August 29th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfbreton

The difference between the IES Sun and mrSun is expected as both uses different internal mthods of estimating the intensity of the Sun.

Hi Pierre,

This is exactly what I would expect, but 2 different intesities for Sun
objects clearly has potential to confuse. (not regarding light analysis
because the MR Sun is the one specified to be used for this task).

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfbreton

Stay tuned, I'll post the link to the white paper once its public. You will find a lot of answers in it.

As I always enjoy more In Depth info I Look forward to it.

Regards
Bri

pfbreton · August 30th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Bradley

This is exactly what I would expect, but 2 different intesities for Sun
objects clearly has potential to confuse.

I agree its confusing, but this is legacy and history who puts us in this situation. Historically, the IES sun was introduced with VIZ 4 when the radiosity engine was introduced. A lot of the shading code from Lightscape was added to VIZ and for file IO reason / compatibility and users migration, the IES Sun (among other things) moved in VIZ.

Since its alway very difficult to retire functionnality from a product for compatibility reasons (you'll always have someone who complain that a certain button is critical to their business...), we have to keep them around for a little while.

For your information, the IES Sun uses the maths of the IESNA RP-21 paper and the mrSun/mrSky for analysis uses either the CIE Sky or the Perez All Weather sky model. They all have different usage so they have different internal algorithms.

Brian Bradley · August 30th, 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfbreton

Since its alway very difficult to retire functionnality from a product for compatibility reasons (you'll always have someone who complain that a certain button is critical to their business...), we have to keep them around for a little while.

Oh I understand that particular problem very well.

Thanks for the continuing heads up on these systems and be sure
to post up the white paper link ASAP.

regards
Bri

Elliot · August 30th, 2008

Pierre

Wao... I hundred years since I heard from you..... Very seldom I write notes on this forum, I just read the threads all the time. I am sorry to use the forum to say Hello to my old professor. Your child must be ready for college by now......! Our where not born when I met you and now they are 11 years old....

Nice to see you are around. I still go to Montreal once a month and still debating if I should move there. We all want to move but the business needs me here as well.

Next time I go there I will call you.... I am going next week to Toronto and perhaps I will jump to Montreal.

Nice to see an old friend... Hi hi hi Would you believe that from time to time I use Lightscape....!

I just sent a PO for the full blown version of Max... Now I am confused... should I change it to this new version. If you were involved in this new one, I know it has to be precise since you are a perfectionist.

Regards
Elliot Correa
Atlanta, Georgia

August 28th, 2008	#11 (permalink)
Justin Hunt Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Brisbane Age: 33 Posts: 1,367 Name: Justin Hunt	Re: Autodesk 3ds Max Design 2009 Reviewed Brian you got it right, as with everything it has to be set up properly to get true readings. A similar discussion came up years ago with regards to solar studies. Basically the question asked was, "can I stand up in court and truthfully say that the solar study is accurate?". Basically the solar study was setup in two different packages with the same data. Each gave different results and each software developer said theirs was correct. When compared to varoiuse industry accredited solar study data sets, neither were correct. jhv

August 29th, 2008	#13 (permalink)
pfbreton Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Montreal Posts: 8 Name: PIerre-Felix Breton	Re: Autodesk 3ds Max Design 2009 Reviewed The difference between the IES Sun and mrSun is expected as both uses different internal mthods of estimating the intensity of the Sun. The problem of daylight analysis is that there is no way to model a single sky condition.. so certain methods try to average it, other try to use the best case scenario (like a clear sky with pure atmosphere..). The good news is that with Lighting Analysis woorkflows, the important question is "ball park figures". We could not care less about a difference of 15% 20% betwen 2 measurements. Lighting has a lot more tolerences than what you think. Stay tuned, I'll post the link to the white paper once its public. You will find a lot of answers in it. P.S. Jeff, please fix the workflow of cutting links: I lost all my previous reply because of this :\: I got a warning, I pressed ok and all my text was lost...

August 30th, 2008	#17 (permalink)
Elliot Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 459 Name: Elliot Correa	Re: Autodesk 3ds Max Design 2009 Reviewed Pierre Wao... I hundred years since I heard from you..... Very seldom I write notes on this forum, I just read the threads all the time. I am sorry to use the forum to say Hello to my old professor. Your child must be ready for college by now......! Our where not born when I met you and now they are 11 years old.... Nice to see you are around. I still go to Montreal once a month and still debating if I should move there. We all want to move but the business needs me here as well. Next time I go there I will call you.... I am going next week to Toronto and perhaps I will jump to Montreal. Nice to see an old friend... Hi hi hi Would you believe that from time to time I use Lightscape....! I just sent a PO for the full blown version of Max... Now I am confused... should I change it to this new version. If you were involved in this new one, I know it has to be precise since you are a perfectionist. Regards Elliot Correa Atlanta, Georgia __________________ Elliot Last edited by Elliot; August 30th, 2008 at 05:33 PM. Reason: grammar 2

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