Getting what I need from architects

tekkendork · April 6th, 2005

I was wondering if anyone can offer some advice to a 3d infographics artist on working with architects.

I need to depict a building and show a cutaway of the different elements inside. I have 2d elevations and floor plans and I will construct the entire building in Lightwave if it comes to that. But I'm hoping to get a 3d model from the archite cts for accuracy and due to my tight deadline.

SO....is it out-of-line to ask a firm if they can share an exported 3d file of their building? I realize CAD files contain a lot of data for electrical, plumbing, etc. Is it possible to obtain the structural info only? What format would work best? 3ds?

And would it be a lot of work for them to provide these things? I'm guessing it's just a matter of turning off layers and exported the model, but I don't want to underestimate here.

Any tips would be helpful

thanks all and glad to be here

Chad Warner · April 6th, 2005

I would imagine that 95% percent of the architects out there won't even have 3D information to share with you. However, every time Iv'e encountered one who has, they haven't had any problem giving it to me. And again, this is only from my experience, there won't be any stuctural, plumbing, or electrical in 3D format. It will be the building shell and maybe interior walls and floors.

crazy homeless guy · April 6th, 2005

well, ...i guess the first question is, do they have a 3d model. 3d modeling in architecture firms is not guaranteed, and maybe not done at all depending on their technology, workforce, and size.

but more to your question.. it doesn't hurt to ask. we have supplied models to lighting consultants on more than one occasion. it all depends on the firms attitude towards the project. some people see it as a way to better design the building by increasing collaboration between the different disciplines, others see it as revenue loss to the company to give away work that someone was paid to create.

unless the firm is using BIM software approach, i would guess that the model doesn't have any electrical, plumbing, or structural information in it.

i would explain to the architect exactly what it is you are trying to do, and why it would be beneficial to the building if you were able to focus your time doing what you were hired to, and not focus your time on creating information that already exists. in the end, the idea is that it will make the building a better project by having everyone work together, as a team.

...oh, and I would ask for a 3DS and a DWG.

ecastillor · April 6th, 2005

The main reason we get hired is to do the tedious work of 3d modeling, and the few times I get 3d models from clients, i end up modeling everithing again in order to optimize my model and rendering times, so good luck with that!

tekkendork · April 6th, 2005

Thanks all. I should mention that this will be for print and I do have FPrime, so I am willing to deal with high-polys

As for the architects not having the 3d info...I assumed they would since they 3d renders to show off their projects on their site. Am I assuming too much here?

Quote:

unless the firm is using BIM software approach, i would guess that the model doesn't have any electrical, plumbing, or structural information in it.

Thanks very much for this. I've always heard that excuse from other architect projects I've worked on (file too big because of electrical, etc.) But it may have just been a way to avoid sending the info.

Hopefully, I'm not coming across as too demanding. I realize it's a huge favor from architects to provide this info but I'm hoping they will like the exposure, too

crazy homeless guy · April 6th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekkendork

As for the architects not having the 3d info...I assumed they would since they 3d renders to show off their projects on their site. Am I assuming too much here?

not necessarily. if the firm hired another company or a freelancer to do the renderings, then they probably won't have the model. ..if that is the case, you probably won't get the model from the viz company or freelancer. that would be the equivelant of you giving away part of the design work you created for the sign without getting compensated for the work.

mbr · April 6th, 2005

Even if they do have it, most likely it won't help beyond a reference. People model different things for different reasons. A Revit or Arch Desktop model will have tons of unnecessary data (just threw out an entire building model because it was just slowing the machine down too much, and rebuilt it all) and would just be too cumbersome to work with.

I've never been able to use someone else's model for rendering.

Bugga_Guy · April 7th, 2005

From my expereince the firm will help you as much as possible as long as the model is done "in house". There is no harm in asking, I am sure they would want to make your life easier. But they may have the model underworks, unfinished etc. In my expereince I find that most of the time I work head to head with architects getting the model (the archects completing a model for their design package, and my model for visualization purposes). If the model is done outside the firm, then most likey there are problems. I find model makers from a third party are very reluctant to give models away. They will provide images of the model but that it is.

crazy homeless guy · April 7th, 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugga_Guy

I find model makers from a third party are very reluctant to give models away. They will provide images of the model but that it is.

Which leads back to several threads on this board about written contracts and such. If you are in the Viz industry, you are typically paid to produce images, and it is typically stated in your contract this way. Unless you were specifically hired to build a model, or there was a provision to your contract to provide the model to the client upon completion.

tekkendork · April 12th, 2005

Thanks to Crazy Homeless Guy and everyone else.

Success!

They work in 3d Studio Viz so they provided a model that I was able to use in Lightwave. All I had to do was change the surfaces.

Thanks again for the advice

April 6th, 2005	#1 (permalink)
tekkendork Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: East Point Age: 36 Posts: 7 Name: Ike Oxford	Getting what I need from architects I was wondering if anyone can offer some advice to a 3d infographics artist on working with architects. I need to depict a building and show a cutaway of the different elements inside. I have 2d elevations and floor plans and I will construct the entire building in Lightwave if it comes to that. But I'm hoping to get a 3d model from the archite cts for accuracy and due to my tight deadline. SO....is it out-of-line to ask a firm if they can share an exported 3d file of their building? I realize CAD files contain a lot of data for electrical, plumbing, etc. Is it possible to obtain the structural info only? What format would work best? 3ds? And would it be a lot of work for them to provide these things? I'm guessing it's just a matter of turning off layers and exported the model, but I don't want to underestimate here. Any tips would be helpful thanks all and glad to be here

April 6th, 2005	#2 (permalink)
Chad Warner Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,448 Name: Chad Warner	Re: Getting what I need from architects I would imagine that 95% percent of the architects out there won't even have 3D information to share with you. However, every time Iv'e encountered one who has, they haven't had any problem giving it to me. And again, this is only from my experience, there won't be any stuctural, plumbing, or electrical in 3D format. It will be the building shell and maybe interior walls and floors.

April 6th, 2005	#3 (permalink)
crazy homeless guy Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,919 Name: travis schmiesing	Re: Getting what I need from architects well, ...i guess the first question is, do they have a 3d model. 3d modeling in architecture firms is not guaranteed, and maybe not done at all depending on their technology, workforce, and size. but more to your question.. it doesn't hurt to ask. we have supplied models to lighting consultants on more than one occasion. it all depends on the firms attitude towards the project. some people see it as a way to better design the building by increasing collaboration between the different disciplines, others see it as revenue loss to the company to give away work that someone was paid to create. unless the firm is using BIM software approach, i would guess that the model doesn't have any electrical, plumbing, or structural information in it. i would explain to the architect exactly what it is you are trying to do, and why it would be beneficial to the building if you were able to focus your time doing what you were hired to, and not focus your time on creating information that already exists. in the end, the idea is that it will make the building a better project by having everyone work together, as a team. ...oh, and I would ask for a 3DS and a DWG. __________________ travis schmiesing

April 6th, 2005	#4 (permalink)
ecastillor Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: monterrey Posts: 851 Name: eduardo castillo	Re: Getting what I need from architects The main reason we get hired is to do the tedious work of 3d modeling, and the few times I get 3d models from clients, i end up modeling everithing again in order to optimize my model and rendering times, so good luck with that!

April 6th, 2005	#7 (permalink)
mbr Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles and Connecticut....and Denver Posts: 1,266 Name: Markus Byron	Re: Getting what I need from architects Even if they do have it, most likely it won't help beyond a reference. People model different things for different reasons. A Revit or Arch Desktop model will have tons of unnecessary data (just threw out an entire building model because it was just slowing the machine down too much, and rebuilt it all) and would just be too cumbersome to work with. I've never been able to use someone else's model for rendering.

April 7th, 2005	#8 (permalink)
Bugga_Guy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Toronto Age: 31 Posts: 357 Name: Brian Zidovec	Re: Getting what I need from architects From my expereince the firm will help you as much as possible as long as the model is done "in house". There is no harm in asking, I am sure they would want to make your life easier. But they may have the model underworks, unfinished etc. In my expereince I find that most of the time I work head to head with architects getting the model (the archects completing a model for their design package, and my model for visualization purposes). If the model is done outside the firm, then most likey there are problems. I find model makers from a third party are very reluctant to give models away. They will provide images of the model but that it is.

April 12th, 2005	#10 (permalink)
tekkendork Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: East Point Age: 36 Posts: 7 Name: Ike Oxford	Re: Getting what I need from architects Thanks to Crazy Homeless Guy and everyone else. Success! They work in 3d Studio Viz so they provided a model that I was able to use in Lightwave. All I had to do was change the surfaces. Thanks again for the advice

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