Ras

Hi guys

I haven´t been here in a while - actually not really since I started my own business last year... Anyway, I´m wondering if anybody has any experience with alternative architectural design/production pipelines... Let me elaborate - Here in Denmark everybody is doing little styrofoam models, sketches and such. Then some 2D sketching on the computer in Cad and bitmap editors. When everything is decided and the documentation phase begins we use AutoCad (mostly ADT 2006). But we seldom use the software to its full extent - most often everything is drawn in a traditional 2D drawing kind of way.
I guess anyone who has been in this kind of situation will recognize the feeling of recreating already existing data to fit your own needs? Its a pain and very costly. You know - you work with like engineers, CG artists etc and everybody likes to recreate something...

On top of that the software is outrageously expensive and nobody knows how to handle its full potential but keeps buying annual updates for something they might as well not have at all because they are afraid of not being able to communicate with everyone else.

This seems silly to me and I was thinking of setting up a test-pipeline at the Studio that I work for.

I just recently held a two-day seminar at the studio introducing people to Sketchup. Big hit - but I´m afraid noone will really use it unless I can show them that we can handle the transferral.

Anyway... the danish government has decreed that from 2007 everything has to be completely BIM - meaning full 3D projects all the way, and I´m seeing everyone locking themselves into the Autodesk way or the Bentley way etc and I´m thinking... hmm, this affects the architecture -especially when us architects are not equipped to fully take advantage of these programs.
I´d like to try an alternative using a pipeline with focus on the interfacing or data-transferall of small and interchangeable programs. This could possible give the whole design process more life if I could go either way using Sketchup, Rhino or even Zbrush in the sketch phase and any CAD documentation tool in the production-dpcumentation phase.
Of course I´d have to be shure that I had a setup tuned to bost my output up to someone handling something else for example the documentaion and construction drawings.

... Now - if these sotware-pieces could be cheap (like Sketchup, qcad, Cadopia, progeCad - yes open source is very interesting)
Right - I hope I´ve made my point... If you know of anyone or somewhere where there might be some hints I´d sure be gratefull to recieve your help. :-)
Thaks a lot!

__________________
Regards

Ras

wda

ras,

Bim taken to the full extent...e.g. transferable or retianed data (database) for all objects? Has the government stated specific file standards to allow for cross application infomartion exchange? Or is it just every set of Cad based drawings must have a 3D representation of the structure/alterations?

Just curious....there are many pipeiline considerations, Operating systems (cross platform), interpolation of data....
So before explaining some thoughts and current undertakings, figured asking these questions are most relevent.

Cheers
WDA

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From the calm seas.... Into the CG Fire...... Into the Heart of Texas

Ras

Hi William

Well, there are specific rules of conduct regarding standards(file, layers etc). I´m not completely familiar with them yet but they are definetely there... We have an organisation called BIPS handeling these standards.

Looking forward to hearing from you. Thanks a lot

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Regards

Ras

bjornkn

I tried to find out more about this, searching for BIM and BIPS in Denmark, but couldn't find anything. Do you have any links to more sepcific info?
I wonder what it means when you say "everything" has to be completely BIM/3D? Is this some kind of EU thing? Norway is not a member of the EU, but unfortunately we still have to follow a lot of the rules issued by EU
I sometimes have to work from scanned paper plans, because the architect still draws by hand. I guess it's the same in Denmark? And now all architects should suddenly be forced to work in full 3D with everything? It sounds impossible to get through.
BTW, I love Sketchup too, and use it all the time. I don't know how well it would fit in such a BIM pipeline though. I very much prefer to get 2D files from my clients, because it is much faster to build the models in SketchUp from 2D than trying to clean up the messy 3D models I occasionally get from some clients. It does get slow in SketchUp when you have to work with houses full of internal walls, doors complete with handles and keyholes, showers, WCs, furniture etc, when you're only interested in the exterior. Not to mention all the flipped faces and other problems..

philip kelly

I would be very interested in learning more about the fact that it is being made law so to speak.
If so is that going to be the way all other EU countires are going.
If you would let me know where you found this info i would be gratefull, as I am in ireland , but it will take a few years to get up to scratch on BIM, if it is going to be manditory.


Please let me as much info as possible.
many thanks

phil

Ras

Hi guys

Sorry to spook you - it is not mandatory generally but from 2007 it will be if you are working on state-financed buildings - which is a lot here in DK.

Everyone else is free to do what they want - but in the end those that cannot work with these things or at least interface with others will be working on carports.

The government is doing this for it to work as an engine in the development of a 3D working method here.

Oh - Bips is the danish Standardisation agency for information exchange in the building industry: http://www.bips.dk/Main/Mainpage.htm

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Ras

bjornkn

Thanks for the link.
I found the 3D CAD Manual 2007, of which apparently only part 1 of 4 is finshed yet, and I must say that this is really ambitious. Especially 1.8 Nu er det forbudt at "snyde" (which means "now it's forbidden to cheat") is interesting. I have worked with a lot of architects, but so far I have not received a drawing which didn't contain any "cheats". Is it really realistic that from now on nobody is going to cheat? And that nobody will draw a WC on a layer for exterior walls? As I understand BIM it relies heavily on error free material? If it contains errors like the above its usefulness will be very limited? And all this is going to happen within just a little more than a year?
It will be really interesting to see how this works out.

Ras

Yeah, I agree - very ambitious and also very aligned to the big softwarehouses... Anyone have any alternative pipeline ideas?

You sounded like you had ideas William?

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Regards

Ras