crazy homeless guy

...can i get peoples opinion on video compression format. i have a meeting next week to discuss the format we should establish as our firm standard. the idea is to find one format that:

-scales to full screen nicely
-is supported by pc and mac with no additional software installed
-is supported by powerpoint and acrobat
-file size is manageable
-could potentially be emailed (this one could be dropped from the list)

years ago i used to mess around with quicktime. i was impressed by sorenson's size and quality. i found myself compressing and re-compressing trying to get decent results, only to waste 8 hours of time. also, quicktime is not supported natively by windows. ..and even with quicktime installed on windows, you still need extra plug-ins to play in powerpoint (on windows). another problem with quicktime is it scales poorly on windows (i.e. full screen playback is horrible).

i tried mpeg2. my results were so-so, but it is not supported directly, without installing extra codecs.

i tried divx, loved the results, but again, additional software needed, little support for macs, probably not compatible with acrobat on either platform.

i tried mpeg4. the results were not as nice as divx, but they were not horrible either. mpeg4 is not natively supported by windows.

lately we have been using windows media. really easy to compress, small file sizes are the pros. the cons are.. often buggy on mac, does not work with acrobat, and if memory serves, does not work with powerpoint on mac. another problem with windows media is it is a proprietary format, making it difficult to convert later on.

one solution is to write to different formats, but we are trying to find one format that makes all users happy. far fetched? probably.

i am thinking about trying some things with avi files, but i am not sure what codecs are best to use with them.

anyway, anyone have any input on this subject?

__________________
travis schmiesing

skogskalle

BINK (from rad gametools)

not sure if this format covers all your needs, but since you didnt mention it, you should check it out.

The filesize can be made as small as you wish and I think its pretty good quality / filesize.

When you compress a video with BINK it has the option of turning the movie into an .exe file. (with the decompressor in it). So you can play it on any computer without any other movieplaying software or codecs. Havent tried it on MACs but I guess it should work.

havent used powerpoint or acrobat, but if its possible to "link" to outside programfiles in those programs that could work too.

Its free to try, but since youre using it for commersial stuff they probably want you to pay them something, think its pretty cheap.

check it out. www.radgametools.com

3dp

yes it is unglamorous and more akin to alchemy
as of 2004 because i can never guarantee who is looking it's either a mpeg 1 on cd 640x480 or mpeg2 on dvd @ pal (uk) so if nothing else they can watch it at home sometimes i'll treat them to widesceen shots but only if they are on a recent qt or wmp.
if you're dealing with large companies as i often do divx xvid mpeg4.............. you've not a hope as even the i.t guys unless he watching pirate movies will have heard of them
unless you can guarantee exacltly what the viewing situation is still with the lowest common denominator which i know will degrade the content
and make sure they don;t run full screen at say 1920x1240 and complain a mpeg1 looks a little muddy
so in the end i'd be prepared to write to different formats to cover all bases

Ernest Burden

I also am pondering this. I think there are really just 4 to consider right now to meet your criteria:

QuickTime Sorrenson
Windows AVI-Indeo5
Microsoft DV
MPEG2 - DVD and CD playback

The MS-DV format is great in several ways--no settings! It just works, and compresses very fast in Premiere compared to other formats. The quality is good, but in compressing one of my NPR animations it horizontally broke up a little bit, whereas QT did not.

QT is very good. The quality is very good, and the format has the ability to scrub backwards and forwards in a file with ease, the WMP cannot do that very well. I have had a much easier time setting non-4:3 aspects in QT than MS-DV. I actually gave up on MS-DV for a 16:9 anim.

Indeo5 has adjustable compression, keyframing, data transfer rates, and is payable on any Windows machine. I think they also play on all Macs but I could be wrong. Not as nice a compress as DivX, but a client won't have to install anything. You are restricted to multiples of 4 I think on the output resolution, otherwise Premiere will refuse to encode the file or explain why.

MPEG-2/DVD format is good because of the standardized players, and the ability to address data rates, quality. But the settings can be pretty confusing, best to find an encoding expert or trust the default settings.

That's my take on it...

__________________
Ernest Burden III
AcmeDigital
architectural rendering

andymcnair

interesting article here:

http://www.extremetech.com/print_art...=121163,00.asp

which benchmarks divx, wmv, quicktime/sorenson & quicktime/mpeg4

personally i compress to divx for quality and include an mpeg-1 version on the same CD which should be viewable on any machine.

Andy

muzzy

I haven't got a chance to try but Macromedia Flash MX Professional 2004 has new video options for Flash players. That might be a solution for your case. Almost everybody has a flash player.

http://www.macromedia.com/software/f...lashpro/video/

creasia

Flash is really great for the internet. Flash MX is a good way to go. I have also found a converter that does a pretty good job, that I will be using till I upgrade. It converts a bunch of oher formats as well.

Find it here at download.com

http://www.download.com/Super-Fever-...ml?tag=lst-0-2

I have had some good results with the Quicktime Mpeg4 compression for my Video. I have however, found some DV compression to be lacking, especially quicktime DV compression.

landrvr1

hey CHG,

Great thread. I know the temptation is to narrow the deliverable down to one format but perhaps it might be more realistic to select two.

Quicktime
Windows Media

Quicktime
Perfect for the Mac, and able to work on most PCs. However, I've had many (too many) clients and end users who DO NOT have Quicktime installed on their machines. This is especially true with laptops that are imaged by an IT group, and Quicktime just isn't a priority on PC machines that come out of an IT bench.

However, I've never been able to get good quality Quicktime out of Premiere, and keep the file size at a realistic level. I spoke for an hour on the phone with an excellent Adobe tech who basically said that the wonderful quality/excellent compression features are really only available with Quicktime Pro. The new H.264 compression is an excellent example. That puppy can get EXCELLENT quality video at incredibly low file size....just not out of Premiere or any other editing program except something for Mac only. Quicktime Pro apparently has a feature that allows you to import something else (.avi, for instance) and then convert to Quicktime H.264 with the full compression features.

(a good example of this are those trailers over at the Quicktime site). Those are all of incredible quality, yet have extremely low file sizes in order to stream. Try getting that kind of amazing quality out of Premiere. If anyone can, I'd love to know your settings!)

I'm going to pick up the Pro version of Quicktime and start playing with it soon.

Hence...

Windows Media File
My favorite, bar none. Incredible compression and remarkable quality. Probably won't play on a Mac, but covers at least 99.9% of my clients and end users. There was talk of color not being very good, but I've never found that to be the case. I've tweaked my Premiere settings to get astounding quality with low file sizes.

Both of those formats are idiot proof. I wouldn't touch the Divx stuff, or any other 'boutique' format, with a 10 foot pole. Divx, DV, etc etc. All of the fringe formats usually require very specific media players - something that clients just can't be bothered with.

mpeg2-DVD is really something I'd only use for DVD production. The .m2v file that's created will simply not play in most players, and you'll need a separate sound file anyway.

mpeg2 is very good as well. .mpg files work great, but the real creative development in excellent compression is coming from the Quicktime and WMV side.

Just my 2cents. I'm no video expert by any stretch, but have had to learn a lot in the past couple of months!

AJLynn

Of the formats mentioned, the only ones that work with no extra software on Mac and PC and MPEG1 and MPEG2. Neither of those meet all the criteria, or are as good as the newer options, so I'm afraid you're a bit out of luck - I don't see how to do this without changing the citeria to "no extra software a reasonable person can't be reasonably expected to download for free".

If you do that, it opens up Quicktime and WMV, though WMV is pretty crappy on Macs, even worse on Intel Macs, without a Quicktime plugin that does cost money. A bit more on the fringe is Xvid, but it does give you great quality and VLC, which plays it, is free on all the platforms I can think of, and if you have ffdshow or Xvid installed on a computer Xvid will work in Powerpoint.

landrvr1

Forgot about the Powerpoint requirement. I've had limited success in getting Quicktime movies to play consistantly within Powerpoint. Has anyone found a fullproof method that works? I can get it to play once, but it requires setting it up again from scratch each time before playing.

How reliable is the ffdshow for Xvid in Powerpoint? I can't find much info on it....