on-screen colors / printed colors

skogskalle · March 15th, 2004

ok, this is probably a very very newbe-type-question, but Im having big problems with this so....

I dont print any images in-house, I allways let a print-company do that. Problem is that the colors on the printed image allways are a little different from the colors shown on my monitor.
The prints come out oversaturated all the time, which ofcourse isnt very good. If I show an architect a test-render on my computer and he likes it, he wont appreciate if the final print looks different.

I know close to nothing about color-management, rgb-settings and all that, which is why I turn to you guys.

Is there an easy (and free) way of making sure the final printed image has the correct color-values?

//kalle

muzzy · March 15th, 2004

Hi,

Jeff posted two pdf files along this line. May be that can help you. Check the link

http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/900-calibrating-grid-screens.html

skogskalle · March 16th, 2004

thanks muzzy! And thanks jeff, great stuff.

just one small question.... : Should I do anything different when using a laser-printer? Or is it the exact same procedure there (ICC profiles etc)?

thanks again.

skogskalle · March 17th, 2004

im confused...

In photoshop my RGB settings are Adobe RGB (1998).

When I open a newly MAX-rendered image (that looks as usual in max) its colors are waaayy off. (the red-tones are totally brown etc.)

When I "proof" the colors (and use my monitors ICM) the image is displayed perfectly in photoshop.

But, if I save the image as a jpeg (with ICC profile) and open it with another image-viewer program the colors are a little too bright and saturated.

Now... I thought that if I used my own monitors ICM in photoshop, the resulting image would display perfectly on my monitor - but it doesnt, and this bugs me.
I have NOT done a monitor calibration yet - and maybe this is all I have to do. But I dont have any software/hardware for doing so, and Im as allways a bit low on cash.

Jeff Mottle · March 17th, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by skogskalle

Should I do anything different when using a laser-printer? Or is it the exact same procedure there (ICC profiles etc)?

As with any device you need to have it's ICC profile in order to use it as the proof in Phototshop. However, I can tell you right now that no laser printer is going to ever give you exact color matching. Unless you have a photographic printer (Like an inkjet, dye-sub etc) you won't be able to match colors effectively. It will be better but never exact.

You can usually download ICC profiles from the manufactuer, but I dount they do them for laser printers.

Jeff Mottle · March 17th, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by skogskalle

im confused...

In photoshop my RGB settings are Adobe RGB (1998).

When I open a newly MAX-rendered image (that looks as usual in max) its colors are waaayy off. (the red-tones are totally brown etc.)

When I "proof" the colors (and use my monitors ICM) the image is displayed perfectly in photoshop.

Yeah becuase when you do that you are viewing the output as how it would be shown on your monitor. This is good when you do web work or work that is always viewed on a monitor. You really should be using the ICC profile generated by a hardware monitor calibrator. Otherwise, your colors are most likely way off. If you don't calibrate your monitor, then using color calibration and profiling is basically useless. Dangerous in fact. A badly tagged image (ie tagged with a profile from an uncalibrated system) is almost worst than no calibration/profiling turned on at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skogskalle

But, if I save the image as a jpeg (with ICC profile) and open it with another image-viewer program the colors are a little too bright and saturated.

Most image viweing applications can not read the embeded ICC profile. Photoshop, Illustartor, Acrobat, Quark are all apps that I know can read them.
What you see outside of PS for example should be pretty close to a proof with the Monitor's ICC profile. I'm not exactly sure what you have done but as you have already said you have not calibrated your momitor, so it's hard to tell what is going on.

Craig Ramsay · March 17th, 2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Mottle

You can usually download ICC profiles from the manufactuer, but I dount they do them for laser printers.

They do... we have a colour laser at work that comes with its own ICC profile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Mottle

Yeah becuase when you do that you are viewing the output as how it would be shown on your monitor. This is good when you do web work or work that is always viewed on a monitor. You really should be using the ICC profile generated by a hardware monitor calibrator. Otherwise, your colors are most likely way off. If you don't calibrate your monitor, then using color calibration and profiling is basically useless. Dangerous in fact. A badly tagged image (ie tagged with a profile from an uncalibrated system) is almost worst than no calibration/profiling turned on at all.

Most image viweing applications can not read the embeded ICC profile. Photoshop, Illustartor, Acrobat, Quark are all apps that I know can read them.
What you see outside of PS for example should be pretty close to a proof with the Monitor's ICC profile. I'm not exactly sure what you have done but as you have already said you have not calibrated your momitor, so it's hard to tell what is going on.

Yeah this is a wierd one... Jeff remember you sent me your images of Gogarburn? Even tho we both use the same hardware to calibrate our screens, I couldn't get your profile to work right so things like trees etc were too dark

Total head f**k

skogskalle · March 17th, 2004

jeff - is there anything related to CG graphics that you dont know? =)
thanks again for your help.

ok, so I should probably try to find myself a monitor-calibration gadget of some sort....
Which leads to my next question: do you know of any cheap and reliable calibration devices? (I guess this is something I cant work without so I must get me one, but Im constantly struggling with money, so I cant spend a lot Im afraid)

nisus · March 29th, 2004

If ICC-profiles are too complex do it the 'old' way... Print an image at home that looks like you see it on screen and send this along to the printer (the person, not the machine). Your printer has good knowledge about calibrating and it should be a piece of cake for him to tune his print to yours...

rgds

nisus

March 15th, 2004	#1 (permalink)
skogskalle Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Södertälje Age: 27 Posts: 376 Name: Kalle Eliasson	on-screen colors / printed colors ok, this is probably a very very newbe-type-question, but Im having big problems with this so.... I dont print any images in-house, I allways let a print-company do that. Problem is that the colors on the printed image allways are a little different from the colors shown on my monitor. The prints come out oversaturated all the time, which ofcourse isnt very good. If I show an architect a test-render on my computer and he likes it, he wont appreciate if the final print looks different. I know close to nothing about color-management, rgb-settings and all that, which is why I turn to you guys. Is there an easy (and free) way of making sure the final printed image has the correct color-values? //kalle

March 15th, 2004	#2 (permalink)
muzzy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Columbia,MO Posts: 198 Name: Mustafa Tutar	Re: on-screen colors / printed colors Hi, Jeff posted two pdf files along this line. May be that can help you. Check the link http://www.cgarchitect.com/vb/900-calibrating-grid-screens.html

March 16th, 2004	#3 (permalink)
skogskalle Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Södertälje Age: 27 Posts: 376 Name: Kalle Eliasson	Re: on-screen colors / printed colors thanks muzzy! And thanks jeff, great stuff. just one small question.... : Should I do anything different when using a laser-printer? Or is it the exact same procedure there (ICC profiles etc)? thanks again.

March 17th, 2004	#4 (permalink)
skogskalle Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Södertälje Age: 27 Posts: 376 Name: Kalle Eliasson	Re: on-screen colors / printed colors im confused... In photoshop my RGB settings are Adobe RGB (1998). When I open a newly MAX-rendered image (that looks as usual in max) its colors are waaayy off. (the red-tones are totally brown etc.) When I "proof" the colors (and use my monitors ICM) the image is displayed perfectly in photoshop. But, if I save the image as a jpeg (with ICC profile) and open it with another image-viewer program the colors are a little too bright and saturated. Now... I thought that if I used my own monitors ICM in photoshop, the resulting image would display perfectly on my monitor - but it doesnt, and this bugs me. I have NOT done a monitor calibration yet - and maybe this is all I have to do. But I dont have any software/hardware for doing so, and Im as allways a bit low on cash.

March 17th, 2004	#8 (permalink)
skogskalle Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Södertälje Age: 27 Posts: 376 Name: Kalle Eliasson	Re: on-screen colors / printed colors jeff - is there anything related to CG graphics that you dont know? =) thanks again for your help. ok, so I should probably try to find myself a monitor-calibration gadget of some sort.... Which leads to my next question: do you know of any cheap and reliable calibration devices? (I guess this is something I cant work without so I must get me one, but Im constantly struggling with money, so I cant spend a lot Im afraid)

March 29th, 2004	#9 (permalink)
nisus Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gent Flanders Belgium Europe Age: 32 Posts: 3,276 Name: Evert Vandenberghe	Re: on-screen colors / printed colors If ICC-profiles are too complex do it the 'old' way... Print an image at home that looks like you see it on screen and send this along to the printer (the person, not the machine). Your printer has good knowledge about calibrating and it should be a piece of cake for him to tune his print to yours... rgds nisus

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