m_cubed

Hi-
Does anyone use the Viz "Render Elements Rollout", without any add-on programs, for compositing in Photoshop?

I use vanilla Viz, and haven't had much luck with multi-pass rendering, by way of the render elements rollout. I'm missing something.

I've had OK luck changing my lighting and material settings for individual rendering passes from Viz (just diffuse, shadows, specular), and compositing in Photoshop, but its sort of crude- especially the shadows.

Today I tried using Render Elements- I get a fairly dark diffuse image, and nothing in the shadows or specular. Shadows do show up on a normal render, but there really probably isn't any specular info to begin with.

Does anyone use this out of the box, and are there any settings that conflict with it?

Thanks for any ideas-
Michele

scotty

Hello Michelle,


I have utilized the Render Elements often, and it works fine.
I must confess, I do not know what "vanilla viz" means.

In Autodesk VIZ 4, if you were to render the "shadows" element, it will render you view plus another frame with only the shadows.
If you have specified a black background, you will not see it, but it is there.
Simply clikck the button next to the RGB buttons (see image)
If you save as a targa, you can then import in photoshop, and you can click-select the image for you selction - viola!

I hope that this is helpful, if not, please post again.

Scott

Attached Images

Render elements.jpg (184.6 KB, 36 views)

m_cubed

Hi Scott-
Thanks for your response-

Sorry for the weird wording- What I meant by "vanilla viz" is that I'm using plain Viz 4 "out of the box" with no add-on programs. I mainly do AutoCAD production drafting/design, and "vanilla" is the main term I've seen on other discussion groups to describe using plain software without added features. I've gotten the impression from other posts on this forum that many people use additional programs with Viz, which is why I said I just use vanilla.

Anyway, thanks for the tip on the black background- I tried the button you described, and got a couple different results- It still doesn't look like it's working on my machine, but maybe someone looking at my render options settings will see where I'm going wrong, or have an idea of where I might have a conflict.

See attachments below-

1. Filter-enabled.jpg
--regular render has shadows cast on walls under eave
--shadow render has outline of alpha channel

2. Filter-not-enabled.jpg
--regular render has shadows cast on walls under eave
--shadow render is blank

Thanks again-
Michele

Attached Images

	filter-enabled.jpg (141.4 KB, 33 views)
	filter-not-enabled.jpg (142.2 KB, 24 views)

m_cubed

OK-
Since my last post didn't spark any ideas worth writing,

Here's a follow-up question-
If render elements requires a plug-in, in order to work properly, what's the most cost-efficient one?

Or, is there a topic in these discussion groups that I should do a search on, to find out more about render elements in VIZ? (or another name Autodesk uses for render elements and things that effect it that might show up in the Adesk Viz help topics?)

Or, if render elements works for most folks with just the basic Viz installation,
does it sound like my computer may not be supporting the software in some way, and maybe I need more RAM or something?

Or maybe a portion of render elements is an optional install, and maybe I didn't install it completely?

I'd really like to use this tool, instead of doing the separate renders "by hand" so to speak (changing settings on materials and lights for separate renders of diffuse, shadows, etc.)

Well that was a long post.
anyway, I'd appreciate any ideas-
Michele

Daniel

I don't think there is anything wrong with your installation. Both screenshots of the shadow render element look wrong to me (could be a VIZ bug or limitation).

I would recommend to start with a fresh scene to get yourself familiar with the way render elements work in VIZ. Just start with an empty scene and put a simple sphere in it. Apply a material that produces a strong highlight. Add a plane and a shadowcasting spotlight. Then experiment a bit with the shadow render element (Diffuse and Specular too).

If that works you can start to figure out what is different in your original scene and makes the shadow render element fail.

Possible problem sources:
- high render resolution (try a much smaller resolution, just in case you are running out of memory)
- exposure control (try disabling if used)
- lights used in the scene (try using another light type, shadow type)
- material type used (some materials don't support render elements properly, try a standard material instead)

Render Elements and Plugins:
There are very few plug-ins that come with their own additional render element types that are specific to the prodcuts features(e.g. Liquid+, finalToon, finalRender).

For general assistance with render elements the commercial plug-in psd-manager allows to output the render elemnts as a PSD file. It takes out a bit of the hassle to get all the render elements into Photoshop, order them, applying the correct blending modes, taking care of premultiplied alpha... Another usefull part of psd-manager is that it can produce a lot of selections for the objects and materials in one go too.

The videos on the site may be even interesting if you don' care about the plug-in itself.

Daniel

wda

Are you using raytrace shadows or shadow maps. Try shadow maps and see if that makes a difference.

WDA

__________________
From the calm seas.... Into the CG Fire...... Into the Heart of Texas

abicalho

Hi there,

I believe the problem lies in Radiosity or Skylight. When using Skylight, no shadow elements will be generated. When using Radiosity, if using Re-Use Direct Illumination, no shadow element will be generated also.

There's also the exposure control. With exposure control the render elements will not be able to re-form the image in Photoshop - the render element is logarithmic so the image cannot be recomposed to 100% of final result rendered.

If you let us know better what you want to do, we maybe able to help better.

Alexander

m_cubed

Wow.
Thanks for all the help!

I started with Daniel's suggestions, and still have some experimenting to do, but actually have stuff showing up in the shadow and specular elements, just by changing the following, from your posts:

IES Sun changed to Standard Sun
Ray Traced Shadows changed to Shadow Map
IES Skylight changed to <no skylight>
Logarithmic Exposure Control to <no exposure control>

So, I still have some playing to do, but want to follow up and ask if I'm on a track that might work, workflow wise-

My current setup includes the following elements that I like:
1. model linked from Arch Desktop
-- (for windows/doors- all other pieces are ACAD 3d solids)
-- (I've read disagreements on whether this is a good idea memory wise)

2. masonry material mapped to building
--masonry .tga map in diffuse
--procedural map in bump

So far in my "experimenting" it doesn't seem like the masonry material is working with my new light setup.

Is this getting into the realm of why some folks on this forum prefer "fakiosity" over radiosity?

Would it make sense for me to do two different renders- one for my mapped materials, and one for render elements with specular/ shadows/ etc.? That's kind of where I'm leaning now, unless there's a recommended lighting setup for exterior views that works well with render elements-

Thanks again for all the help!
Michele